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topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #1
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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It should really become a pop-up menu in the registered user's profile.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #2
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 66680
Thanks!

Yes, I think I can fix it by following a recipe I found elsewhere.
We'll see.  Give me a few hours, and maybe I'll be back with a positive answer.


21:10  Yes, it's OK now.
However, getting this to work reliably is still not easy.  There seems to be caching going on where it's not good.
It seems to work OK now.
This post was edited on 2019-06-28, 22:13 by Robert Cailliau.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #3
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 65640
Sigh…
After a few months of non-activity, I finally found time to implement DokuWiki on our Committee's site.
However: the multilingual module seems to have a compatibility problem.  When enabled I get many warnings of this kind:

Warning: Declaration of syntax_plugin_multilingual::handle($match, $state, $pos, &$handler) should be compatible with DokuWiki_Syntax_Plugin::handle($match, $state, $pos, Doku_Handler $handler) in /home/clients/8793768624ec7a42b3223147689c48b3/web/Committee/Wiki/lib/plugins/multilingual/syntax.php on line 143

These do not show up in the tests I did on my local machine, they only show on the hosting site.
The local machine runs php 5.6.30, the hosting server runs 7.0 adn will soon force me to go to 7.3

The multilingual module is the one modified to allow setting the user interface language per user, as per posts in this thread.

Help appreciated…
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #4
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64395
Thank you!
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #5
User title: Robert Cailliau
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In reply to post ID 64390
Turnermm:

Good, so I will look into that plugin a.s.a.p., and thanks too.  It even looks very good that the choice is based on what the administrator allows.

I suppose that to test it I have to re-install the unmodified language plugin first.

If I were younger I would join you all and help with the coding.

Also:
Then Mosaic (Netscape) happened:
But to those of us in the outer world it seemed like magic. 

To us it was sheer disaster: no editing facility at all and no multi-windowing so how to make a link?
And no vector graphics!  And no style sheets!
:-(
But Mosaic did work instantly on all popular platforms, and that was its one and only  redeeming quality.
It took about 20 years to get out of the hole the web fell into, during which JavaScript happened (not putting a programming language in was, I think, our failure).  JavaScript is arguable the world's worst programming system.
Another "bad" feature was/is the internet substrate, completely based on academic usage: no security, no payment system.  The Minitel was ahead on that by a decade, but unfortunately the EU Commission did not manage to liberalise the European Telecoms in time.   So it all went to the US again, to the point that "Die Wiege des Web" says it has been "translated from the American", which manifestly is not true.  So it goes.

But we should not go on about it all on this forum.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #6
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64384
Michaelsy:
[Solved]: done.  But while I'm very grateful for the temporary fix, I'll consider it really fixed when there is a button in the user's profile.

Notifying of DokuWiki site with general access:  OK, but it is extremely unlikely.  I wanted a collaborative tool for our committee, which needed to be as wysiwyg as possible and DokuWiki was the only one coming close, but the committee works behind a password protected space first, then publishes as pdf and html on a public site that needs a little more than what DokuWiki provides (e.g. in-line svg; I may of course be wrong here).  I may use it for my own purposes, but then it will run like the trial I did: on a virtual host on my laptop, not accessible.  There is another little group that just may use it, but it too works in a protected space.  However, should something go public I'll definitely let you know.
Please keep up the good work.

One of the aspects in which the www project at CERN failed was easy editing of websites but it was not really our fault.  The 1990 system on the NeXT was based on NeXTStep's editable text object and content was easy to edit.  That was not portable to other systems which were not object oriented at the time.  Then Mosaic (Netscape) happened:  it was a browser available on all platforms which made it an instant hit, but at the same time it was very basic in that it used a single window and showed pages read-only.  Once editing was lost, html evolved quite wildly and it became increasingly difficult to make sites.  There were attempts like PageMill, Golive, Dreamweaver and so on, all very uncomfortable and limited.  Now we have stuff like Drupal, which is inaccessible to the public at large, or on the other extreme Facebook which is extremely easy for publishing but very limited in what one can do.  The whole area has split into professional tools like Drupal and very dumbed-down on-line systems like Facebook.

DokuWiki is an attempt in the right direction, and once more I'm grateful for your help and the fast responses.

There will be a special event at CERN on 12 March this year, which will be webcast: the 30th anniversary of Tim's proposal to create a networked hypertext system.  Maybe some of you are interested in watching it.  There is no official announcement yet.
There is also:
https://www.amazon.de/Wiege-Web-spannende-Geschichte-WWW/d…
or
https://www.amazon.fr/How-Web-Was-Born-Story/dp/…?Subscr…
or
https://www.mondadoristore.it/Com-e-nato-il-Web-James-Gill…

:-)
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #7
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64372
OK, so I don't understand how you did it, but never mind:  it works, and it does the job for now.
So many thanks again, and good night.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #8
User title: Robert Cailliau
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In reply to post ID 64370
LarsDW223:
I tried that: got the 58MB zip, extracted, found dokuwiki_plugins-master -> releases -> multilingual-1.0.1.tar.gz
extracted again, got a folder multilingual, replaced the existing one in lib ->plugins with the new one.

Then found the new settings, but it did not work until I realised that a semicolon was missing at the very end…
Each line needs a semicolon, fortunately I have done enough php to know that what you are doing is executing those settings as code and the missing semicolon made php fail(*).

Is executing that as code a security risk? Probably, but I don't mind because the whole thing will be in an access protected area in the first place, and I would be the only administrator.

It now does work, thanks for all the help!


(*) I could go on for hours about the miserable state of programming languages today and when and why we failed in that that area with www.  But not here and not now.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #9
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64358
Oh! Well, great!

Yes, that will do for now.  Agreed that it's only the admin who can set it for now, but that can be helped later with a button in the user profile and building the multi-lingual plugin into the main code.

Sorry for being totally out of the game, I've never used github (stopped programming in 1993) but had a brief look.  Do I understand it well that there is a single php file to change?  That would be easy.
However, I still need to edit the file that has user_settings but I could not find that either.

No need to answer this, I can wait for an "official" update of the language plugin.

Very nice of all of you to help with this, have a good rest of the weekend (it' miserable, raining and dark here in France just North of Geneva airport).

Best!
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #10
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64350
Michaelsy:

:-)

Yes.

(not really for this forum: ) Sorry, I did not in any way want to brag about CERN, rather show that there is a valid case for having a choice.  Not everyone lives in a mono-culture environment where all people they know speak the same language, use the same currency (we constantly have both euro coins and Swiss coins in our pockets), etc.  As one of the first Director Generals of CERN once said:  "When you enter CERN you lose your nationality" ((Weisskopf, 1961).  True.  I did not know a single co-worker who cared where any of their colleagues came from.  We were interested in doing physics, our competitors were other physics labs.  I was employed there in computing for nearly all my career.  I designed and implemented programming languages, wrote one of the first markup-driven text processors and so on.  I was in a group with a Greek, two Portuguese, an Italian, a German, a Finn, a Dane, a couple of French and a guy born in Iran.  But that wowed only visitors, we never thought of it.  I don't know of another place on the planet like CERN.
So we don't really care much either about what language DokuWiki speaks, but it's astonishing that it does not have the choice.  The number of people in cross-language operations is growing fast.  They can deal with it, but it's still more comfortable in your mother tongue.  As another important CERN person once told me: when you get older you lose your flexibility in other languages except your mother tongue.  Most committee members of this group (the pensioners' association) are years older than I am.
And at nearly 72 my energy to write a plugin has ebbed somewhat, shall we say.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #11
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64341
Thanks LarsDW223.

My browser uses my system language settings, which give multiple languages.  For the search engines I have as much as possible switched language preferences OFF.  Very often sites annoy me by presenting their stuff in French simply because I happen to live in France, and some sites don't even let me choose.

The browser language is an unusable option I'm afraid.

All my users are in similar situations,  they are retired international civil servants:  we have all worked at CERN, we live in different countries than those we grew up in, we need to provide information to the members of our association in at least English and French, and our committee has a Dutchman, a Swede, several French, some Germans, Italians and also a few Scots.  The committee's working languages are indifferently French and English, but as you will understand, at home each person will want to use whatever they prefer.

Thanks also Andi for a simple and very clear answer.
How would I get someone interested in making such a plugin?  I'm afraid it would be beyond my current possibilities to try it myself.

It's hard to believe it has not yet been done.

But then it is equally hard to transmit what international life is like.  I had a row with Apple some years ago, because they took away format customisation, building them into "region" packs.  That meant there was no way I could set  English as the main language, the date format to YYYY-MM-DD, 24-h clock, euros as currency, metric, apostrophe for thousands separator and degrees Celsius.  There was no "region" with that combination.  For more than two years I was in user-unfriendly hell.

If I install DokuWiki on the committee server there had better be a way for each of us to choose freely what language the interface is in.  So I hope some benevolent soul will make a plugin…

Thanks everyone for your help.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #12
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64335
Sigh…

Michaelsy seems to be so far the only person who understood my simple question.  I searched the plugins too but also found nothing.  I do NOT want translation, just the individual, per-user choice in the user's profile settings of the language of the interface. (I'm not using some extraterrestrial mode of communication, am I?)

Take this forum as an example:  if I go to my profile I can choose either English or German.  All the buttons and legends then adopt that chosen language.
I still use English to post, but that is irrelevant to the use case.
My DokuWiki users will work on pages whose content is in several languages, sometimes even mixed in the same page, but that is NOT the problem.  They will want to see the legends on the buttons in the language that they choose in their profile.

That seems not to be possible.

Such a choice has to be built into the DokuWiki basic software, unless a plugin can add a pop-up choice to the user profile panel.

Phpbb does have language packs that are used on the basis of the profile of the user.  DokuWiki seems to allow only a choice made by the administrator.  I.e. it is impossible for user Alice to log in and be presented with a French user interface while at the same time user Bob gets English (even if they both work on the same page which is in a third language)

However, the languages are there, it is "only" a matter of adding a menu in the profile settings and of course also change the way the system responds to a user request.

I hope someone implements this.
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #13
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64091
So…
Anyone out there who knows if it is or is not possible to change the interface language of DokuWiki?
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #14
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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In reply to post ID 64090
That seems to affect the language of the content.
I want the language of the interface.
It also does not let the user set a preferred language in their profile.

For example, the search box says "Search" and has below it "Recent Changes — Media Manager — Sitemap"
If a user sets their profile to French they then should see "Chercher" and "modifications récentes — média — plan du site"

So this plugin and all similar ones are not what is needed (as I specifically stated).
topic: per-user interface language [Solved]  in the forum: General Help and Support Features and Functionality
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Robert Cailliau #15
User title: Robert Cailliau
Member since Dec 2018 · 15 posts · Location: Prévessin-Moëns, France
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Subject: per-user interface language [Solved]
How does a normal (non-admin) user select the interface language in which they want to see DokuWiki's interface?
I have some users who prefer English, others French, yet others Dutch.
This is NOT about the text of the content on the pages!
It is about the legends of the buttons and notices of the user interface.

I searched for quite a time, including with search engines, but could not find anything.
What did I overlook?
Thanks,
This post was edited on 2019-01-14, 10:44 by Robert Cailliau.
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