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hj #1
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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Subject: Dokuwiki powered websites
I'm a fan of dokuwiki as a wiki - I'm huffing and puffing my way towards creating what I hope will be a very useful group wiki.

But my question here is how can people use Dokuwiki to power websites, in the more conventional sense, i.e.brochure-ware, not collaborative sites. I'd love to see some more examples of web sites 'powered by dokuwiki'.

My curiosity over this was aroused when I looked at Andi's own site, https://www.splitbrain.org/blog - I thought it a really nice little site, stylish, clean, simple and fast.  But how did he make it?

Well, maybe that question is easy to answer - Andi's got a lot more code prowess and knowledge than I possess!  :-D   But then I also thought it would be good to know more on HOW to make a website like Andi's. And do templates exist? Or can there be a website section on the dokuwiki.org site where tools and guides to make websites are available? And a special section in the forum?

I know a lot of people here have more understanding and capabilities in code than I have, and they may see this as a rather  pointless question because making a website in dokuwiki is 'easy' or 'obvious'.  But to me, a humble user, it's not! and I would like to know as I see a lot of potential to increase the attraction of Dokuwiki if its use can be extended (promoted?) to more conventional internet use.

Ideas or thoughts on this welcome.

Hugh
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LarsDW223 #2
Member since Sep 2014 · 448 posts · Location: Paderborn
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If you need more inspiration look at the namespace dokuinstall, using the sitemap at dokuwiki.org (https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuinstall). There are many other users who use DokuWiki for a personal homepage. Maybe you find something you like.
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andi (Administrator) #3
User title: splitbrain
Member since May 2006 · 3503 posts · Location: Berlin Germany
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Check these links:


And if you want to help out, merge the two into one coherent page.

The basic premise to use DokuWiki as a traditional website CMS is:

  • lock down ACLs anonymous users can only read
  • do not allow self-registration
  • use a template that hides wiki tools for non-logged in users
Read this if you don't get any useful answers.
Lies dies wenn du keine hilfreichen Antworten bekommst.
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hj #4
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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In reply to post #2
Hi Lars,

Thanks for the link.  Interesting to look at.

Unfortunately, there are not many instances of dokuwiki used for normal web sites/cms.  And of the few that are listed, most of them no longer use dokuwiki!  Not surprisingly, they have moved on to other platforms which are more feature rich (and responsive). 

This doesn't negate the usefulness of dokuwiki for simple web sites, not at all. But it does mean the example list is well out of date!  ;-)
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hj #5
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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In reply to post #3
Hi Andi,

Thanks for the reply and the links - useful.  I may, when time allows, have a go at combining those two pages into one.

There are certainly some useful tips in those pages - but I fear (for me, at least) there is no 'guide' as to how to make a simple web site.  As I mentioned in my post, a lot of educated coders (!) may think this is 'obvious' and 'easy' - but for the average user, without coding skills, it is not easy at all.  I would not even have any idea how to make a template!... and less idea still how to style a template with CSS!  A horizontal menu?....how do I do that? etc. etc.

If I was able to download the template and CSS files for splitbrain.org, then I would have a chance (maybe!) of understanding how a web site template is made.  Now, I don't expect you to release your copyrighted work!  But it is an example of a 'live', current dokuwiki powered web site, that meets modern standards and expectations, and which is responsive - exactly what we need!  But it isn't even in the list!.... https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuinstall

If there was a 'basic website kit' with a simple template and CSS file, and brief notes on how dokuwiki is used for such a design, then I feel I could move along much quicker.  Indeed, I'd be happy to experiment with real designs. I don't expect everything to be done for me, but I'm basically a user, not a coder. People like me need a head start!

I'm attaching some very rudimentary outline designs of simple web page structures. If one (or all) of these was made into simple templates, then it could encourage idiots like me to get into using dokuwiki for web sites. It would take me weeks, months, even years to code the necessary files. For some people amongst our brethren it would probably take just a few hours.

Is it possible?....

(p.s. one thing I am good at (!) is writing guides to help simpletons (like myself) to understand and operate what is otherwise complex technology. I have done this for a living. I'd be more than happy, and interested, to make such a guide if and when I get to understand it myself!  :-D )
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ach (Administrator) #6
Member since May 2006 · 1948 posts · Location: Folkestone, UK
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DokuWiki has a lot of different templates to choose from. Those will change the way your website looks and behaves. There is bound to be a handful which meet most of your needs?
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hj #7
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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Hi ach,

No!  That's just the point, most of the templates look like wikis, unsurprisingly.  But you look at Andi's site splitbrain.org and it looks nothing like a wiki....yet is powered by one.
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turnermm (Moderator) #8
Member since Oct 2009 · 4741 posts · Location: Canada
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In reply to post #4
Take a look at the flat template: https://www.dokuwiki.org/template:flat
Myron Turner
github: https://github.com/turnermm
plugins, templates: http://www.mturner.org/devel
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ach (Administrator) #9
Member since May 2006 · 1948 posts · Location: Folkestone, UK
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In reply to post #7
Quote by hj:
most of the templates look like wikis

Most, yes, but not all of them. You can also navigate the templates by specific tags via the tag cloud at the top. You might think the "cms" tag would be a good one, but it actually isn't. "blog", "clean" and "minimal" seem to be better. I would advise to at least go through all the screenshots.
Personally, I quite like these templates for personal websites: ramtop, prsnl10, mnml-blog, taratasy, twentyfifteen, the aforementioned flat and (the outdated and maybe not functional) typo.
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hj #10
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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Thanks for those suggestions ach.  And thanks, Myron, for the Flat tip.

Yes, I have looked at nearly all the screenshots for nearly all templates!  In the past I downloaded several of these and tried them out on my localhost installation...with mixed results and enthusiasm.

I decided to try again and downloaded the ones you (both) mentioned.

flat - perhaps the best effort at a modern look, and responsive.
minml-blog - not responsive
persnl10 - not responsive
ramtop - responsive, worth a further look; it's simple so it's CSS may be easy-ish to understand!
taratasy - responsive, but awkward old-fashioned look - may be worth further investigation, though
twenty-fifteen - disastrous!... displayed only my sidebar (used in the default dokuwiki template) and NO pages were visible at all.  The biggest issue was that there was no visible link to admin to go and undo the template selection!!

It should be mentioned that none, repeat NONE, of the aforementioned templates displayed my site logo....which displays fine in the default dokuwiki template.

So on the whole I would say there are two feasible templates for web site use. It doesn't really advocate for dokuwiki as anything other than a wiki, imo.  This seems a shame, because as the splitbrain.org site demonstrates, very nice and stylish web sites can be built with dokuwiki (and some of its plugins). 

Of course, I do realise that this is opensource software - and I am eternally grateful to those who can do what I cannnot do: envision and execute practical solutions in software design.  But knowing the potential of a powerful piece of software like dokuwiki, it's frustrating to see its limited application in a niche (small personal web sites/cms) where it could, I'm sure, have a larger following.

But I can see I'm wishing on a star!  

So I will try and dissect some of the internals of a couple of those templates and see if I can get my head around the essential components of dokuwiki for web site use. Maybe I'll get there in the end!
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ach (Administrator) #11
Member since May 2006 · 1948 posts · Location: Folkestone, UK
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I disagree that most templates are for wikis. I do very much agree that most templates are not very modern.
I think that is a sign that DokuWiki (and wikis in general) is not as popular as it used to be.

Back in 2015 I tried to make a push for more modern DokuWiki templates and we had a whole campaign going about that. See Template Conversion. Although the result was a cool new modern template (writr) and a tutorial on how to convert WordPress themes to DokuWiki templates, it unfortunately did not lead to many more conversions and new modern templates.

Out of interest, what is it about the default template that you don't like or find "too much like a wiki" or not modern enough?
This post was edited on 2019-10-04, 01:12 by ach.
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cziehr #12
Member since Jan 2011 · 634 posts · Location: 10119 Berlin
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I use DokuWiki for the website of my volunteer fire department - see https://www.ff-eisenberg.de/dokuwiki/doku.php (still under construction - not all pages are completed yet).

It is the standard DokuWiki-Template with little changes to css - I don‘t think it looks like a wiki for an outstanding person.
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hj #13
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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cziehr, thanks for the link - that is a nice little site you've got going there!  Was it just CSS tweaks, or has the PHP (main.php) been changed also?  I'm intrigued how you posted the wide photo at the top - but it looks very good.  These types of 'variation-on-a-theme' are just that kind of thing that would be good to share with the DW community - could bring a lot of knowledge to those of us who are less code-savvy.

You're right, it's not too wiki-like, perhaps my judgement was a bit harsh. It is, if you don't mind me saying, fairly 'utilitarian' - that's no bad thing (I quite like clean, simple designs), but I would guess that the designers of the default DW template had a utilitarian intention, to present information clearly and cleanly  - they were designing a template primarily for wiki use, it would be quite odd if they weren't!

But you'll agree that your site still has very much a dokuwiki 'look' - as it must do using the standard template. It's a world away from Andi's splitbrain.org site with it's colourful freedom. So I think, to echo ach's comment, we are lacking modern templates - and perhaps lacking some guidance on how the avergae Joe (like me!) can create one.
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hj #14
Member since Apr 2008 · 186 posts · Location: Lancaster, UK
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In reply to post #11
ach, thanks for the comments.

I think perhaps you're right, or at least I can understand why you think I'm wrong to suggest most templates are for wikis. I guess it's because I see their design as very 'utilitarian' and, yes, pretty outdated in many instances. But yes, even those old templates could be used just for web sites. Criticism accepted.

I must read more about your push for more modern templates - I couldn't agree more about their need.  Perhaps you're right in saying that wikis are also on the wane - a lovely idea that has had its day, perhaps? But I still think the underlying engine is still quite powerful, it's just that its outward appearance doesn't exactly set the pulse racing. If wikis are on the downslope, then perhaps all the more reason to repurpose dokuwiki as a simple web site/cms builder - and give the template shop a spring clean.

Ref. your question to me about the default template:  No, I'm perfectly happy with the default template for wiki use. In fact it works best, for my wiki purposes, of all the various templates I've tried, I think it's a great job. I wouldn't be so happy with it for web site use because I think it's design is utilitarian, which is not to say it's bad but that it's built for purpose.  But if I wanted dokuwki to be the engine for my own web site, I would want a much more personalised and different look for the front end. I guess it's why Wordpress has thousands of themes, to give users a chance of something different and unique (well, almost!)

So in a nutshell I agree with you, I think there's a need for more modern templates for dokuwiki. Responsive designs which have a variety of layout options and greater typographical freedom.  If I had the a coder's brain and skills, I'd be churning these templates out!
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cziehr #15
Member since Jan 2011 · 634 posts · Location: 10119 Berlin
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In reply to post #13
Quote by hj on 2019-10-04, 12:27:
cziehr, thanks for the link - that is a nice little site you've got going there!  Was it just CSS tweaks, or has the PHP (main.php) been changed also?  I'm intrigued how you posted the wide photo at the top - but it looks very good.  These types of 'variation-on-a-theme' are just that kind of thing that would be good to share with the DW community - could bring a lot of knowledge to those of us who are less code-savvy.

I only edited css-rules and created a header.html in the conf-directory. This is the content of my userstyle.css:

/* hide logo, usertools and search */
.headings.group, #dokuwiki__sitetools {
        height: 0px;
        visibility: hidden;
}

#dokuwiki__header h1 a {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 1.7em;
    font-weight: bold;
}

#dokuwiki__header .headings, #dokuwiki__header .tools {
    margin-bottom: 0px;
}

This is the content of conf/header.html:

<?php
<div class="logoheader" style="background: URL(/dokuwiki/lib/tpl/dokuwiki/images/header/header.jpg) no-repeat bottom right ; min-height: 381px; margin-top: 10px;">
    <h1><a href="/dokuwiki/doku.php/start"  accesskey="h" title="[H]"><img src="/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/apple-touch-icon.png" width="128" height="128" alt="" /> <span>Freiwillige Feuerwehr Eisenberg (Pfalz)</span></a></h1>
</div>

You see - I have not edited much.
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