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how to build two-collumn text page ?
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dandodan #1
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Subject: how to build two-collumn text page ?
i want to use dokuwiki as a collaborational tool for translating text in another languages.

Iwould like to have a page (per text to translate), where on the left "collumn" is the text to translate, on the right the textspace for entering the translation of the left side.

Is there a possibility for build such a wiki? I didnt find any templates or tweaks for my usecase.

Another Question is, wether the translation on the right side should be saved as on complete or as a seperate site to the original text.
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pop (Moderator) #2
Member since Nov 2016 · 237 posts · Location: near Basel. Switzerland
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The wrap plugin might be useful for arranging text in two columns.
With the include plugin you can keep the original text and the translation in different pages or even namespaces.
A namespace template might be useful to generate the markup (the 'scaffolding') for a new page.
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Aleksandr #3
Member since Mar 2010 · 587 posts · Location: Volgograd, Russia
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The Translation Plugin too, and many jobs to do.

off-topic:
Apps with 'Software localization' feature at alternativeto.net.
ru: Пожалуйста, избегайте избыточного цитирования.
en: Don’t use an overquoting, please.
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dandodan #4
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In reply to post #2
Quote by pop:
The wrap plugin might be useful for arranging text in two columns.
With the include plugin you can keep the original text and the translation in different pages or even namespaces.
A namespace template might be useful to generate the markup (the 'scaffolding') for a new page.

Thanks for the help. So i did it the way you described. Now i have on the left side the original text (for better editig i splittet the text in adequate chunks) on the left. on the right side is the column, where the translation ist to process.The Problem now is that when a person hits the edit-button, the editor opens - and you can't see the text to translate on the left side anymore because the editor window takes up the whole screen. is there any possibility to display the [text to translate] besides the editor-page?

Any suggestions?
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Aleksandr #5
Member since Mar 2010 · 587 posts · Location: Volgograd, Russia
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Press Preview button.
ru: Пожалуйста, избегайте избыточного цитирования.
en: Don’t use an overquoting, please.
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dandodan #6
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this isn't working for me. the site works as follows:

<WRAP group>
<WRAP left column 45%>
{{page>[ID1]&[noeditbutton]}}

</WRAP>

<WRAP right column 45%>
{{page>[ID2]&[noeditbutton]}}

</WRAP>
</WRAP>

i use a "scaffold page" where the original text/text to translate are included from other sites.
when Preview, get the preview of the other site, where there is no original text.

Any suggestions?
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dandodan #7
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In reply to post #5
even if it would be shown in the preview window, the userexpirience is bad. you would have to scroll up and down back and forth. No productive way to translate a Text
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pop (Moderator) #8
Member since Nov 2016 · 237 posts · Location: near Basel. Switzerland
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Sorry, I did not take into account that you have to see the original text while writing the translation. I can't think of a way of doing that with DW.

You could open two separate browser windows, but that will not result in a great user experience, either, I think.
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dandodan #9
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Quote by pop:
You could open two separate browser windows, but that will not result in a great user experience, either, I think.

right. I guess this task needs some serious programming skills, which i don't have right now.

do you know of a software, that could be used for that task?
maybe a plugin (to hack), that will enable this routine?

I was realy astounished, that there is no such a collaborative  translation project in the field in 2020. There must something be done!  :-D
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Aleksandr #10
Member since Mar 2010 · 587 posts · Location: Volgograd, Russia
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@dandodan

Any tool (software)? Or "tool" for using with/into DokuWiki?
ru: Пожалуйста, избегайте избыточного цитирования.
en: Don’t use an overquoting, please.
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dandodan #11
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Quote by Aleksandr:
@dandodan

Any tool (software)? Or "tool" for using with/into DokuWiki?

thanks for your help.
whatever will work. but preferably with/into DokuWiki,because of the already invested time and efforts.

any suggestions?
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dandodan #12
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In reply to post #10
i looked up some programms,
https://alternativeto.net/software/zanata/ this one delivers all what one would like to have but twofeatures - the wiki-like direct contribution without the need to register, and that you rely on their online-hosting

btw. the objective is to translate docs, not code. most of the online translation tools i found are for code.
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pop (Moderator) #13
Member since Nov 2016 · 237 posts · Location: near Basel. Switzerland
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I used to do some translation work. I also used to update documents where you have to show a side-by-side comparison of the old vs the revised text. However, collaboration was not the main issue for those projects, and much depends on exactly how that collaboration is to be done.

Anyway, the translation itself can be done in nearly any word processing software. The most straightforward way consists in moving the text into a table with three columns (in my case).

Column one holds the numbering of the document (such as the paragraph numbers in a legal document).
Column two holds the original text. Each paragraph (or even each sentence, depending on the structure of the text) starts a new table row.
Column three is empty at the beginning and will hold the translation.

This procedure is straight forward. Producing the translated document (using columns 1 and 3) takes just a few commands. However, the translation will not exist as an autonomous document while the translation is under way.

Parts of this solution could be used in DokuWiki as well by using the table editing plugin. However, as the table editor is not really meant for this kind of work, the user experience might not be what you want it to be. Also, producing the final (translated) text from the table takes a few procedures which are best done outside of the wiki. Using the table editor for the translation work would not facilitate any kind of collaboration in the strict sense of the word as only one user can work on a document at a time, and the text parts in the table would not exist independently of the table. Using markup in the table would be severly restricted; you can not insert lists into a tble cell.
I just tried the edittable plugin. It's not useable for this purpose as it does not apply text flow to the content while editing is going on. The row is shown as one very wide line, with most of the text being invisible while editing. Sorry, no go.
This post was edited on 2020-02-23, 08:50 by pop.
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